Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Margy Meath on August 8, 2009 at 9:04pm

It would be helpful to get more detail about this.....can Kristin give us some information??
are you saying that citizens were fighting with the police -or - with one another - or both??

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Mark Sweetland on August 8, 2009 at 9:25pm

Police were arresting citizens after breaking up some kind of problem. I will try to get more information. I just reported on what I saw. I think it was a citizen-citizen problem, originally. I don't like to speculate, but maybe gang-related? No idea at this point. A large number of people were involved, in other words, more than 4 or 5. They were kids.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Wendy Sullivan on August 17, 2009 at 10:23pm

I am on Chili near Woodbine every Tuesday evening and while there are some groupings of young adults, I have also seen at least one sheriff instigate and antagonize with very clear racial profiling. In that incident, I intervened with the young man, gently redirecting him and deescalating the situation. I then spoke with the very arrogant sheriff and the back up sheriffs in the two calls he called (who by the way, were not arrogant and listened to me).

The next morning first thing, I called the deputy sheriff , thanked him for having his troops in our neighborhood but asked that they be educated and provided skills in deescalating situations. He thanked me for the call - I did not give him the sheriff's name as it seemed to provide a better lesson for the entire staff. Another sheriff I know reported that the situation was reviewed with the sheriffs going into the city who were also given some feedback about better ways to address the situation.

While I don't think we should all intervene (I knew the kids playing near the situation who would have been victims if the situation had gotten out of hand), I do think that we all have a responsibility to educate officers about our community - a group of kids playing basketball in the street are not necessarily bad or "hanging out" are not always a gang. And yes, I do call in potential crime or troublesome situations.

I also thank police regularly for their work but also hold them accountable for their actions when they are profiling or targeting folks irrationally.

Sorry for the lecture, can you tell that this is close to my heart????

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by MacClurg Vivian on August 18, 2009 at 7:59am

Wendy, thank you for being involved...what a wonderful neighbor you are. And I am delighted/impressed to hear you called and spoke with the Sherrif's office.
your neighbor on Winbourne,
MacClurg

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Margy Meath on August 18, 2009 at 6:48pm

I am curious as to what you observed as 'very clear racial profiling'? I am not questing what you saw, but that particular term (racial profiling) is pretty loaded. I'd like to hear a bit of detail about what the sherrif did to instigate and antagonize in this situation.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Wendy Sullivan on August 19, 2009 at 6:53am

Racial profiling - the sheriff pulled over a car and a black young adult male with long dread locks sitting on a porch observing the stop made a loud (everything he said early was loud also) comment about the police to his women friends on the porch. It was rude but I am sure if I'd made the same comment, it would have been passed. The sheriff turned around and started yelling at the man on the porch, telling him that he could arrest him for foul language. The young man who was with two women friends, of course responded with the fact that it is his neighborhood and that is how he speaks and also informed him that the comment was for his friends not the sheriff.... and it went on. The sheriff actually told me "I could arrest him for his language" - well it's not language I speak but it is the language spoken in the neighborhood with F words and all. I don't always use that word racial profiling but this was a clear case of the sheriff jumping on his case because of his appearance and cultural language. If he was offended, the sheriff could have defused it with a polite response rather than provocative declaration or even ignored it since the man was not talking to the officer.

I agree that racial profiling is loaded but sometimes is accurate. My 22 year old daughter (who is Asian) was stopped on 390 driving with friends. The police had her get out of the car and the officers told her that they stopped her because she had black males in the car and they wanted to know if she was ok. She called in a complaint to that police department the next day. I'd say that is racial profiling also.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by MacClurg Vivian on August 19, 2009 at 9:42am

Thanks for the clarification Wendy, it sounds like racial profiling to me too.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Mark Sweetland on August 24, 2009 at 10:49pm

I would appreciate it if the police responded to any violation of the law. Laws are community standards that all are to follow. I do not see what "culture" has to do about laws that are pretty black-and-white. In this particular incident, an officer may have reacted improperly, and Wendy had a good instinct in responding. However, it seems to me this person violated the law, and this should not be tolerated, but I was not there to see what happened. In fact, if his coments could be heard over 50 feet from the house, that is a noise violation subject to a $200 fine. Just food for thought.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Shawn on August 24, 2009 at 9:57pm

Sometimes there are subtle nuances, such as body language, that we can not describe, but witness in these situations. Sometimes it can be a two way street. I find it interesting that the kid on the porch automatically thought that the sheriff did not live in the neighborhood.

I agree, that the response from the Sheriff sounds a bit over board, and ignoring it, or responding differently would have been more appropriate.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Wendy Sullivan on August 27, 2009 at 7:16am

I hear what all you say and agree to some degree - my objection was the escalating in a culturally insensitive manner especially in the presence of lots of young children. If the sheriff had gone over to the man, told him quietly that the talk was not helpful, diffusing the situation quietly instead of yelling back and challenging him, I would not have been so upset.

I know when a group of young adults or teens of any ethnicity get together talking, they can get very animated and loud - do we fine them fine them or challenge them on what they say in their conversations? I think not.

The citizen was not yelling until the sheriff yelled at him. I believe that police officers are professionals just like teachers, and like parents, need to model appropriate behavior, especially in the presence of kids.

The other night, I was visiting with the family after a church event, and one of the 12 year old boys threw a ball that hit a car. The driver stopped to visit friends so I took the 12 year old over to him to apologize to the driver instead of yelling at the boy.

Obviously a sensitive issue for me in my multi-racial family. I'll quit pontificating and go drink coffee and get to work. sorry if I offend anyone. I wish I could attend some of the PCIC meetings but work every Wednesday night. Someone please suggest that they rotate nights to Thursdays sometimes~ Thanks

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by MacClurg Vivian on August 27, 2009 at 5:53pm

Thank you for taking the time to share your thougths and thanks to all who contributed to our opportunity to dialogue about this. I know from first hand experience that the RPD personnel (cops) are trained to use deescalating techniques whenever possible and to be polite no matter what language is coming at them. It's part of the job. If every cop went off when a citizen swore at them or verbally challenged them, we'd be in a mess. I know the Sheriff's deputies are expected/required to use the same politeness. Both agencies have a complaint process for such mis behavior, or appearance of such mis behavior.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Wendy Sullivan on August 28, 2009 at 7:18am

This has been a great discussion - I know all the folks get the training but sometimes (especially young or new) police and sheriff have difficulty accessing the training in the moment so we all have responsibilities to help them learn.

• ▶ Reply