language in talking about our neighborhood.

I receive the 19th ward yahoo posts but somehow lost access to respond to the group so I'm putting response here. a recent post about Thurston Rd had some questionable disrespectful language in describing folks - gold lame pants, thugs.... I hope that isn't an indication of how we think of our neighbors. I personally love the diversity of the neighbor including differences in socio-economic status.

This is a quote I once received in an on line course and use it when I am posting things.

The stories we tell ourselves about ourselves determine the quality of the selves we imagine we are. The stories we tell about others determine the quality of our relationships with them.
-- Rami Shapiro in "Hasidic Tales: Annotated and Explained"

To Practice This Thought: Notice what kinds of stories you tend to tell about yourself and others -- are they tales of woe or hope? -- remembering that they are acts of "world-making

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Permalink Reply by Anthony Fasolo on January 5, 2010 at 12:28pm

Violent behavior, crime, theft, drug dealing, intimidation.... that is not diversity. That is being a thug. It operates outside of the accepted behavior of a law abiding community. I can't accept that nor will it I label it anything else but thuggery. We can't confuse the issue of violence with ethnicity and then become all hyper sensitive to the point where using a word like thuggery automatically labels the person using it as a bigot and a problem. There really is plenty of diversity in the 19th ward and it is to be fostered and cherished. However, Thurston road is anything but diverse. There is little that is there that is useful or needed as far as my needs go. Unfortunately it has become trashy, neglected and run down - which again...should not be confused for diversity. There is very little actual cultural emphasis there at all. I would see diversity better represented by artists and organizations that strive for better community building on Thurston Rd. Where artists are, so does everyone else usually follow.

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Permalink Reply by Margy Meath on January 4, 2010 at 7:44pm

I also used the word "thug" in the following sentence: "I agree that we need a thriving business community but it is NOT going to happen until Thurston Road is cleaned up of thugs, ‘clubs’, run down stores and open air drug dealing." As Sheri mentions, context is important - I used "thug" to describe the behavior of people on Thurston who commit crimes (stabbing, shooting, homicide, theft, drug dealing). I'm not sure how this can be interpreted as 'disrespectful'.
I very much appreciate the diversity of the 19th ward although don't see much of it on Thurston - this has changed DRASTICALLY since i moved here 23 years ago. "back in the day", Thurston had several places to eat, a decent pizza shop, Hunts and other places where people (both IN and OUTside of the 19th ward) shopped. Now most of Thurston has revolving door storefronts, rundown properties, drug dealing and 'clubs' that attract violence and trash on the streets. It's NOT the same Thurston Road that I previously enjoyed, yet somehow that gets translated into a lack of appreciation of diversity.

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Permalink Reply by Wendy Sullivan on January 5, 2010 at 10:33pm

If you saw my black 15 year old nephew waiting for the bus on Thurston near Penhurst, you might think he is a thug because he has distinctly urban attire yet is a well supervised and good student at SOTA. And the two teens from our church who live with their father in an apartment right off Thurston patiently helped care for their 90+ year old Jamaican great grandmother until her death this summer. They too walk and meet their friends on the street because the apartment is so small and there no backyard. To see them without knowing them could lead to speculation about why they are not at home and potentially label them as thugs. And the barber shops in our neighborhood offen serve as community centers as men and women chat while spending the hours needed to get their hair braided or cared for. I object to generalizations about groups of folks by appearance. Can we tell by observing groupings whether they are thugs or not? I certainly can't in spite of spending most of my years in the city doing home visits as a social worker.

Does Thurston need to be revitalized? absolutely! Do we need to be visible? absolutely! I'm just asking that we consider our language when making generalizations based on appearance. I've been in the neighborhood over 30 years and have found that generalizations can build barriers and fences unnecessarily.

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Permalink Reply by Mark Sweetland on January 6, 2010 at 1:01am

Agree, Wendy's comment is well worth considering.

So are some others.

Is there anything you can do in the coming year to help improve the situation?

I don't have any answers, just a thought. We all have to work together to make things better. One small suggestion, if you haven't already, get to know your next-door neighbors, those on your street. Wish them a happy New Year, and exchange phone numbers. Let them know you will be happy to help if they need it.

Mark

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Permalink Reply by MacClurg Vivian on January 8, 2010 at 10:14am

Very sweet, caring and practical, Mark, those little actions build big community. A good reminder for us to keep reaching out...to the stranger (who is often a friend we haven't met yet). Thank you

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Permalink Reply by Margy Meath on January 6, 2010 at 9:06am

Wendy, I didn't make a 'generalization based on appearance' and i don't see that anyone else did either. I was referring to the people (and their behavior) on Thurston who commit CRIMINAL acts- aka- 'thugs'. I am well aware that there are many 'good' people on Thurston who simply try to go about their day to day (law abiding) business. My new next door neighbor owns one of the well established barber shops - he also complains about what's happening on Thurston and its impact on the community. I've probably seen your nephew waiting for his bus, along with other kids and did not "think he was a thug because he has distinctively urban attire" -In fact, I find it quite reassuring site to see kids in our neighborhood waiting at bus stops to GO to school. I worry about those same kids and whether they'll be strong enough to endure the influence/lure of gangs, drugs, etc.

I believe that there are people who assume that those of us who are concerned about Thurston are somehow racially motivated or don't understand 'urban culture' - that assumption also leads to huge barriers and fences and reinforces stereotypes and intolerance. I think it also leads to rationalizations of the bad things that are happening on Thurston and/or a tolerance of things like trash, open air drug dealing, gang behavior, etc. In the meantime, the community continues to be at risk as Thurston deteriorates before our very eyes!

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Permalink Reply by Wendy Sullivan on January 6, 2010 at 8:52pm

My last comment - I believe when we use provocative descriptions it presents the view that the wish to clean up a neighborhood (any neighborhood) is racially motivated. I don't believe efforts to stabilize the Thurston economy are racially driven . But I personally don't like the language and feels like it undermines the community building that is needed to change neighborhoods one block at a time. We obviously have different thoughts on this and I believe that we can agree to disagree on how each of us talks about the neighborhood.