Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Mary D'Alessandro on January 19, 2015 at 2:29pm

Good afternoon Dawn,

I so enjoyed our conversation and was disappointed that I was unable to attend the SWCC meeting as we discussed.  I was getting over a stomach bug.  Eleanor, I am very impressed with the minutes, subject content and the transparency of the SWCC. 

Your minutes were very informative, I am glad that people can come and voice their concerns to this Council.  Judi Baker, a PLEX resident and long time community activist has told me for 6 months to come and voice my concerns.

The minutes mentioned that there was a

• Concern expressed that Block Clubs don’t have a vote at the SWCC table.

I too have the same concern that residents don’t have a voice in the PLEX neighborhood.  I am a PLEX resident.  I have attended many PLEX meetings and the PLEX Association never brought a vote to the members to decide on anything happening in the community.  The leaders(whom ever they are) just decide and do it.  PLEX will not reveal who its leaders are, members and residents are not allowed to see the by-laws.  Many attendees of the meeting wonder how Dorothy Hall went from being President of PLEX to Executive Director.  There were no nominations or votes by membership of this position.  When PLEX was questioned by e-mail, the e-mails were ignored.  At one point PLEX did committ to answer the questions on a specific date but that never became a reality.

The SWCC minutes are truely a great tool to bridge the community to the happenings in the city.

• Minutes are a rarity at PLEX.  If there are minutes, they are handed out at the next meeting.  Never posted on the web-site or Loc.19 for the community to go over  and comment. Solving problems takes a community working together and the leaders being open to community involvement.  Community involvement is a must for a viable Neighborhood Association. PLEX was e-mailed a letter by a longtime resident weighing in that she liked what was happening in the PLEX area with all the urban renewal.  PLEX never shared that letter at any of the meetings and would not allow anyone else to share it either. The voice of the resident of PLEX was never shared and ignored.

 

The SWCC minutes revealed that:

• BOA activity underway. Seminar March 18 scheduled to discuss funding needs and clean-up.

Already have a developer who wants to build riverfront housing. PLEX wants to be included in the process and is asking that the SWCC support them. PLEX wants to put pressure on developers to provide mixed-use housing with no one being displaced. 

PLEX has not shared this date with the members nor have they asked anyone to attend. It is not on the PLEX calendar or anywhere on Loc. 19.

The minutes also revealed that:

• PLEX now has an attorney to support their positions.

There was never any discussion at PLEX meetings as to hiring an attorney.  My concern is: is PLEX paying for this or is Dorothy and Dorian Hall absorbing the cost.  Members and residents should at least be part of the decision making process for something like this.  If PLEX is paying for it then the funds would be from dues and fund raising done by residents and members.

• Dorothy recently sent the PLEX block club names to David Hawkes.

It would be nice if Dorothy posted the names of the block clubs with the SWCC and on the PLEX website.

The name of the blockclub, meeting place, date and time.  I attended PLEX meetings for close to a year an never knew there was a block club until I heard about painted canvas going up on the poles on South Plymouth. The block Club nor PLEX ever engaged the community who lived in that block club to give input on what they would like to see in the area .I live in the are of one of the block clubs.  PLEX goes back and forth on the name of the block club. It used to be Jeff-Mag and then there was a name Upper Plymouth.  E-mails were sent out askig about the names but the e-mails were ignored.

Again, thank you for posting these minutes, it is very important that we can all read and comment. This brings the community together and together problems will be solved. I look forward to becoming involved now that there is source to find out what is happening in our neighborhood. In speaking with many of the oldtimers that still live in the PLEX neighborhood, they commented that it never used to be the PLEX CLUB.  It used to be a real Neighborhood Association. PLEX does not engage its members or residents to be involved. 

Mary D’Alessandro

Permalink Reply by Mark Sweetland on January 20, 2015 at 4:50am

Mary,

Some very good points!  As most groups are volunteer, it is hard getting timely minutes posted, but some do.  Stay involved with your group, find out about block clubs, and maybe start one for yours.  Best wishes.

Permalink Reply by Mary D'Alessandro on January 21, 2015 at 10:55am

Mark, 

Thank you for your reply. I will follow you advice and stay involved.  It has been a very difficult year with PLEX.  There is no transparency or accountability.  After I asked questions several times, they sent my membership check back!  I like your idea to maybe start a new Neighbor Association.  One that welcomes everyone and everyone has a say. And most importantly everyone's concerns are important, not just the concerns surrounding the area on Plymouth between Magnolia ad Jefferson. Not what I wanted to do at this stage in my life but we'll see what develops.

I value your opinion, thank you

Permalink Reply by Margy Meath on January 21, 2015 at 12:07pm

The SW seems to have some real issues with transparency, true community involvement and service from the City. I don't know the details re: PLEX but your questions are good ones. the 19thWCA has had similar issues/concerns in terms of things like meeting minutes, "membership", etc. 

Regarding "block clubs" - if the City really wanted to keep track of these, they could. During the "voice of the citizen" meeting over a year ago one of my recommendations was to find a way to strengthen block clubs AND connect them to one another by, perhaps, having a central place where block club leaders might connect. In December, there was a "block club summit" of sorts BUT our block club was never invited and the "agenda" seemed to be driven by a small minority. I don't know what came of that "summit" and continue to be curious as to how the event was funded.

In terms of the SWCC - I have a lot of questions about how information flows TO that council. Again, it seems that the council is supposed to (ultimately) represent the various community organizations it's never been clear to me as to how resident input is solicited.

Information from NSC seems to "flow" to a select few rather than being widely distributed to all community members. For the 100's of times i have supplied my email address at various "community meetings", the ONLY entity that has used that to keep me informed of events is the PCIC (police citizen meeting) - Officer Carl Dickerson has been great about sending out materials re: that meeting.

Permalink Reply by John Boutet on January 22, 2015 at 3:44am

Hi Margy,

I've been sitting on the SWCC since October 2010 when Eleanor had invited me to join to get Location19 involved in promoting transparency in all the neighborhoods of the SW.  As you recall you joined a few of the SWCC Communications Committee discussions for transitioning Location19.org from a 19th Ward focus to a SW Rochester focus.  We also at that time expanded membership to include organizations and businesses so that all Location19 members would have a better understanding of how the various pieces of our community fit together and where to go and who to work with to address various quality of life issues in the SW.

A bit of info about this sites name:

I should point out that when Shawn OHara started this website, he called it Location19 because he lived in the heart of the 19 Ward but it was in no way associated with the 19th Ward Community Association (19WCA).  Shawn set the site up using the Ning social networking hosting service and the actual site URL is Location19.ning.com.  It was a free service at the time.  Shawn then acquired the domain name Location19.org to make the site name a bit cleaner.  In 2010 when Marian and I switched the site's focus to the SW, we changed the logo from 19 to SW and a year or so later obtained the LocationSW.org domain name which is active and will redirect the person who enters LocationSW.org to the same Location19.ning.com site that typing Location19.org does.  I should have switched the domain name I refer to in my posts to LocationSW.org but didn't primarily because it is a bit confusing to newcomers who look at old posts that refer to Location19.org.  I'm going to have to bite the bullet though, because many people assume the site belongs to the 19WCA and that annoys people in all the neighborhood associations when we promote the use of the site for posting their minutes.

In the spring of 2011 I worked with Ann Robinson who was then the office manager for the 19WCA  to set up a 19WCA group, 19th Ward Community Association, on Location19.  My hope was that we could talk all the neighborhood associations to do the same and that they would use the same group structure so that all the association groups would have the same "look and feel" when members of this site are comparing neighborhood information.  Unfortunately most of the neighborhoods organizers are not very comfortable with computer and it has been a chalenge getting them to set up groups, let alone using the same structure.  We do however have groups for Susan B Anthony Neighborhood Association, Plymouth-Exchange Neighborhood Association, and Changing of the Scenes. 

From what I have seen while sitting on the SWCC the 19WCA is much more structured than the other neighborhoods.  It is divided into 23 Districts, each of which invites residents of their district to elect delegates to sit on the 19WCA Delegates Council.  That Council is the governing body of the 19WCA and meets monthly.  At a yearly convention the members of the association elect a President, 1st VP, 2nd VP, Treasurer, and Secretary for one year terms.  The president can only serve two terms.  The past president remains involved during the term or terms of the next president to help with continuity.  Having this very democratic structure is good but takes a lot of work.  Other neighborhoods generally have not been able to get as much participation in their organizations.

Permalink Reply by Margy Meath on January 22, 2015 at 11:48am

Yes, John - you have continued to provide an incredible service by hosting this site and making it available to the entire community free of charge!! While I understand that some of the neighborhood groups may not be as comfortable with computers, that excuse is getting kind of old in terms of information sharing. Like it or not, we are in a technologically driven environment that is certainly here to stay.

Marion recently made a point in a Facebook post about the need to attract younger volunteers to help out with community initiatives - she's correct but an organization that does not have at least a basic internet presence will likely never attract much in the way of younger people who tend to check their "smart phones" or "google search" as their first effort at connecting with something new.

Posting minutes here (or anywhere that the public could see) would help a lot in terms of the issues that Mary D. raises in her post.

thanks for your continued hard work on this!

Permalink Reply by Mary D'Alessandro on January 21, 2015 at 12:34pm

Wow! Maybe we should have coffee.thank you for taking the time to respond. I will see if anyone I know has your phone number. The sad part is I've only shared a small amount about PLEX . There is so much more. Ever wonder why the gateway to the city doesn't have businesses. Plex has never supported one business. They didn't even support a deli that did not sell cigarettes, lottery tickets or alchol. How much more pure can you get with a deli.

I wonder who's pocket they are filling at the city with the last secret they tried to push through. 44k contract to an organization that is not a 501c3 with no fiduciary. Someone was trying to sidestep procedure If Plex can't send emails or do minutes than how would you think they could fulfil that contract?

Permalink Reply by John Boutet on January 22, 2015 at 6:26pm

Don't assume nefarious dealings where there aren't any Mary.  There are more than enough problems and questionable dealings in City, County and State politics not to mention private industry to keep interested parties constructively occupied digging and exposing the dirt that is there.  My impression from having worked with the various neighborhood organization over the past several years is that all of them constantly struggle to get residents involved.  The poorer the neighborhood, the more difficulty they have getting people involved because more residents are in survival mode and have little extra time and energy to put into community building efforts.  The few who do have the passion in their souls to fight to improve their communities soon find themselves a small group fighting for years to keep big outside special interests from exploiting their neighborhoods to benefit the few.  The inner loop and 490 express ways are good examples of how neighborhoods were destroyed by top down urban planning which was more focused on what the suburbs and mall developers wanted that what would benefit the city neighborhoods.  As a result many vibrant commercial strips in the city dried up and tens of thousands of jobs were lost in the city neighborhoods.  In turn that added to the crime problems in the neighborhoods which increased the affluent flight from those neighborhoods further reducing property values and the tax base that pays for the schools and other services in the neighborhoods. 

In SW Rochester in recent years, the addition of foot bridges across the Genesee River and an expanding U of R have outsiders flocking to our neighborhoods either to take advantage of beautiful affordable housing or to buy up properties to convert to student housing.  Student housing can command much higher rents than poor families can pay which puts us on the threshold of another gentrification such as took place in Corn Hill years ago.  We all would like to see the neighborhoods thrive and the quality of life improve, but it needs to be done in a way that improves the life of the current residents also and that respects the hard work that current organizers put into their neighborhoods when no one cared.  Some of the community associations need to evolve and grow to meet the new challenges but it needs to be done in as constructive a way from within as much as possible.

Permalink Reply by Mary D'Alessandro on January 22, 2015 at 9:03pm

John,

John,
First, I am not saying the plex people are bad or nasty. They are very nice, good, salt of the earth people that have not embraced the opinions of long time reidents nor any business in the area.
I don’t assume anything. I am a straight shooter. I do my research before I open my mouth. Here are the facts concerning my last comment.

PLEX never brought to the membership that they were going for a 44K contract. FACT

I happened to check the agenda of City Council for December and found Legislation 416. FACT

I checked the Legislation and there were some discrepencies as to where the money was coming from. It did not add up. FACT

The city of Rochester was audited by the NY state Comptrollers Office in 2012 and they were scolded for not getting competitive bids.

The City of Rochester did not put this out to the community for bids. FACT.
WHY?

The city told me PLEX was a 501c3. PLEX is not a 501c3.
Why didn’t the city do their homework? I did!

I checked the Attorney General's Website  - Plex is not listed as a 501c3.
I checked Guidestar.org - PLEX is not listed as a 501c3.
I checked 501c3 lookup  - PLEX is not listed.as a 501c3.

I called the Community Design Center who issued a grant to PLEX for designs on a park where the Firehouse was that was just torn down on Plymouth.  The Design Center revealed that PLEX does not have their 501c3. They used a sponsor. That grant is for much less money than the contract the city is offering PLEX.

I talked to the attorney hired by PLEX, his comment was, "I've met with Dorian Hall, never met Dorothy."

A leader in PLEX revealed to me that John Curan is gone because they thought he was a mole.

So forgive me if I think someone is doing someone a favor. It wont be the first time in this administration. An expectation of competancy would that
- PLEX members where involved and knew about the legislation.
-The city would follow proper protocol and not try to slip this through.
-Most important the city had received complaints about PLEX prior to this legislation.
If PLEX cannot even put out minutes, and a couple e-mails what qualifications do they have to handle the undertaking of Legislation 416? Again, its one thing to get that kind of money under the right protocal (with a fudicary and accountability) but it is fradulant under the current circumstances.

PLEX Block Club (Dorian Hall) and the city(DES) did not follow proper protocal with the beautification grant. They were suppose to reach out to the community before deciding what would go on the light poles. After I reveiwed this with Norman Jones, Dorian sent out a flyer inviting the neighborhood to come and help the kids paint the canvas that would go up on the poles. When Dorian was quesioned about how the voting would go to decide if these went up on poles the answer was,” If you owned 5,10,15 houses you only got one vote. Residents that were renting could not vote. I ask where these rules came from and he said the by-laws. By-laws that no one can see. Renters can’t vote but renters kids could paint the canvas.

I hope this helps you to understand how I and many others in the neighborhood feel. I keep hearing that Neighborhood Associations need people to be involved and help. PLEX has had many opportunites to have a vibrant Association. Instead, they have chosen to be a club that pushes residents and businesses away. In Oct. 20 new people showed up at a PLEX monthly meeting and of course they asked questions. PLEX would not answer those questions. 20 people got up and walked out. One of them asked if this was a dictatorship.

The rest of your text I am having a hard time understanding where you were going with it.

Yes gentrification has taken place in the past. True gentrification is the the displacement of people to knock down current housing and put up new. That has not happened here in PLEX. The houses were abandoned vacant houses that were rehabbed. There used to be drug dealers hanging out on the corners and shootings. People in the neighborhood were even afraid to leave their houses. Now they can! A tremendous amount of money went into houses to rehab them properly. Many should have probably been knocked down but it was important to not do gentrification and keep the character of the neighborhood. So I guess the real question is: Does a select few prefer to have drug dealers, stabbings, shootings and an area that is the main artery into the city continue to deterorate as it did for many, many years or do you want an area that has well kept homes where kids can play and not fear being shot, where students from all over the world (who do not kill people) walk the streets and enjoy being here and may possibly buy a house and raise their children in the future.

I know which option I would prefer to live in and raise my children.

It is ironic that this past Tuesday night PLEX told city council that the area " feels less like a neighborhood now (because all the vacant houses are filled) and it feels almost “corporate”.
Yet PLEX took the credit with much pride when the LandMark Society commented they were surprised that there were not alot of vacant houses in PLEX and that those houses had retained the character of the neighborhood."Corporate"? I don't see anyone walking around in suits or fancy cars that line the street. We have a real neighborhood with great people that just need to be embraced. When someone moves in, I go welcome them and thank then for choosing the 19th Ward.

John as I mentioned in the begining, I am a straight shooter and these are the facts. I hope you can better understand why the actions of a few people who do not want to see change can actually hurt alot of people and the surrounding neighborhoods.

Thank you,

We both have a true passion for our city.

Permalink Reply by Margy Meath on January 23, 2015 at 9:51am

I don't have a clue about any of these PLEX issues but John Curran has been a tremendous advocate for that neighborhood for many, many years!! 3 summers ago he was very involved in reaching out to many citizens to get them involved in the design charette for the neighborhood. A group of my students worked with him and went door to door throughout PLEX to invite all residents to the meeting. 

Permalink Reply by Mary D'Alessandro on January 23, 2015 at 11:47am

Yes John Curran was awesome. I felt bad at one of the PLEX meetings because someone said the charette was a joke. Dorothy sat there and let these people rip them apart. Plex gets an award for work on BOA. Plex did not do the work , John Curran did the work.
no one acknowledged his role. I'm not sure but I don't think he was even invited to go with them when the award was presented.