I did a Freedom of Information Request on a couple addresses and this is what was supplied to me.

or 1076 S Plymouth Avenue:

1) The number of calls for police January 1, 2011 to February 4, 2013 - 69

2) The number of arrests for last two years - this record is not maintained

3) The number of points assessed and reasons: NONE


For 1172 S Plymouth Avenue:

1) The number of calls for police January 1, 2011 to February 4, 2013 - 32

2) The number of arrests for last two years - this record is not maintained

3) The number of points assessed and reasons: 6 pts for “Disorderly Premise”

MY Question is," Why does 1076 get 69 requests for police and no points, but 1172 has only 32 calls with 6 points accessed?

Seems to be a little out of whack here? Who does the accountability lie with?

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Can owner occupants get points? Does anyone know out there?

Yes. Owner-occupants can and do get points. 

Another Freedom of Information request. Interesting results! Who was responsibile for letting them re-open?
It appears just the little guy gets hammered! Houses do not commit crimes! But housing providers are held accountable for the actions of their tenants while no accountability is put on the person doing the crime. Maybe after I post some of the horror stories that happen to housing providers down in Amy Nichols office, the residents will realize why there are so many vacant housing plaguing their neighborhoods.

One little story, I was asked to attend a points hearing with a housing provider. I went and no one accept the housing provider could enter. The housing provider requested I be able to attend and Amy Nichols said "NO".
The housing provider went in alone and was threatened and yelled at. I guess they were afraid of witnesses. Always tape those meetings.

The following is in response to your Records Access request for 578-580 Jefferson Avenue:

Your request is approved in part and denied in part.

1) The number of calls for police January , 2011 to January 13, 2013 - 746

2) The number of arrests for last two years - this record is not maintained

3) The number of points assessed and reasons:

a. 6 points for tobacco

b. 24 points for marihuana

c. 6 points for controlled substance & marihuana

d. 6 points for firearms & dangerous articles

I raised the point question to Lt. Hill and Councilman McFadden in an email a few weeks ago. Neither responded to my question. I've also raised it in the past with David Hawkes (NSC) and didn't get a clear answer. One thing that Mr. Hawkes DID say is that it's easier to 'go after' landlords than it is to do something about home owners. I am not sure that "points" get applied to homeowners but there are various fines that can apply. I have heard (informally) that some of our local bars/clubs discourage calling 911 when there is a problem because they don't want to get points.  I wonder if this is part of why there seems to be escalation of late night violence on Thurston - i.e. there is a 'don't call' attitude among patrons that leads to police not being aware of problems that are 'brewing'.

All of that aside, the way in which "rules" are applied/not applied seems VERY uneven in this part of town. It also seems that if you "know somebody" you get preferential treatment for some issues. It took 5 years and a LOT of citizen advocacy on our street to put an end to a towing business that was being run out of one of the homes on our street. I am confident in saying that if someone was running a towing business on the Mayor's street it would have been dealt with quickly and efficiently.

It would be VERY helpful to hear from our elected and appointed city officials about HOW points are given, what the process is, how nuiscance properties are determined, etc.

The key to getting things done in your neighborhood is holding NSC accountable. When you send an e-mail always, always cc the request to city council. If you do not get a reply from the NSC send another e-mail labeled SECOND REQUEST. If you don't get a reply send another labeled THIRD REQUEST. If there are enough of these that go by enough people, city council will get a very clear message that someone is not doing their job. Controlling crime in neighborhoods lies with the strentgh of NSC and how serious and effective they are at their jobs.Also, what the residents are willing to tolerate. Neighborhoods need to be fought for. Residents get worn down always hearing the same excuses from leaders. They need to step up and hold them accountable. I was not around to have known about a towing business and how long it took to get rid of it. I think it would have been appropriate to ask David Hawks why it was taking so long. I have noticed some unfair practices in the area and Perhaps we could discuss them sometime.



I don't usually reply to the threads on here, (but do follow them) and wanted to comment that I have not received an email from you regarding this topic.  I have searched my emails (current and deleted) and cannot find any email from you on this matter.  If you would like to discuss it, please call the NSC office 428-7630 or you can send me an email to rh0358@cityofrochester.gov

Thank you Lt. Hill and you are correct as I just checked that email and you were not included in it. I thought you were included as the 'thread" was related to some things you stated in the last public safety meeting. (it was a report of sorts). I apologize for my error and I will forward you the email just so you are aware of its contents. It's GREAT to see you participate here and since many of us have questions about the issue of "points" i'm wondering if you could explain how they work?? If you are not the correct person, then is there someone you might recommend.

Not surprised you did not get a clear answer from David Hawks. That appears to be the same theme that I consistantly hear about him when speaking with area housing providers. Of course it is easier to go after housing providers, it would be very difficult to take someones home away that they live in. The point system is just a lazy way for the city to deal with difficult people. Instead of doing their job they want the housing providers to do it for them. I will always keep in mind what Police Chief Sheppard said in front of a group of people, "Do not approach the drug dealers, they may shoot you." My life is worth more than a couple of points. Let the city take the keys, they can add it to all the other vacant houses that are off the tax rolls. Again, houses do not commit crimes, people do. PUT THEM IN JAIL!!!!

I can offer this information from our members. Points are applied very uneven. Some people were not even notified there were problems at their properties. Amy Nichols calls them downtown to tell them they have 100 points and your going to do this and that. They should have been notified by the NSC administrator that there was a problem at the property. Really the meeting should take place at the property and she can talk to the people and tell them what they are doing that is illegal. It would be a cold day before Miss Nichols who ives in Pittsford would leave the comfort of her cozy office.

Lt Hill was able to clarify a few things for me re "points".
In terms of residential properties, point assessment is inititiated out of the NSC office by Lt. Hill and/or David Hawkes who read each case and make a determination. When points are assigned property owners are notified and invited to meet with NSC staff.
In terms of "entertainment district" properties there is a "board" of SW residents, bar owners and business owners who hear cases and make recommendations to the NSC re whether points should be assessed. This is only occurring in the SW and downtown. I am not sure who is on the "board" .

So the Hawkes/Hill dyad reviews each case?  What triggers a "case?"  I find it hard to believe they are reviewing all (police) calls for service... and I say calls for service because only a small percentage of those calls actually generate a report (i.e. documentation).  By the way, that's one way to make crime rates look better.  If you don't write it down then it never happened!  Matters adjusted.  Move on.  Anyhow, does it become a case after the police have been called to a property 10 times? 20?  Does it make a difference what they are being called there for? And how about code violations?  Does it take 5?  10?  As far as I can see code enforcement isn't citing anyone unless there are neighbors breathing down their necks about something.

And the "entertainment district" folks, in part, get to police themselves.  An anonymous (to us) board.  Well..isn't that special?

Regarding the tow business that was operating on our street for 5+ years... I want to make it very clear that in spite of our tenacity and overwhelming advocacy, that business would still be in operation on our street today if the owner hadn't moved to another municipality.   THAT is what solved our problem, my friends.  Not NSC.  On the contrary, NSC, "the city", was a joke to him.  There are other issues on our street that have been brought to the attention of NSC repeatedly for years and nothing has happened. 

Mary, I agree that NSC should be held accountable but I am at a loss as to how.  We've gone to the top, we've copied in city council members, and we've seemingly gotten nowhere. Others have tried.  At some point they stopped calling themselves NET and started using NSC.  This is the only change I've seen.  I'm sure lots of effort went into that.  I find it amusing.  

For the record, I have lived in Rochester for 24 years and in two neighborhoods other than this one.  I think most people who know me would say I am pro-police.

The only reason I can see that this neighborhood hasn't collapsed completely is that a number of law-abiding, decent people have chosen to stay here in spite of the crime and blight.  I don't see the city doing much to keep us here.

Points, who gets them, how and why will be topic of an upcoming Public Safety committee meeting, possibly in April.  These meetings are held 6:30 PM the last Wednesday of the month at the Rochester Presbyterian Home on Thurston Road.  Watch for an announcement.

Like many people, I am not able to make Wednesday evening meetings at this time. THat said, I've asked about 'points' in many meetings before and have never received a clear answer. The "Thurston street watch" group (not currently meeting) discussed using the nuisance point system over 3 years ago to shut down drug houses - I'm not clear as to whether much progress was made with that idea. We were also told we couldn't do anything about problems with the 'clubs'.  

Sheri's point (no pun intended) above is an important one - if the police are called to a property because neighbors are concerned and the police do not generate a report then the discussion of 'points' never starts. I can imagine that well intentioned citizens have done their part (i.e. call 911) for issues, see the police come and expect that there will be more follow through. BUT, if the police come and go and don't document the issue the 'case' is considered closed and the issue of points doesn't get initiated. This seems to be a very important part of the process for citizens to be aware of and it begs the question as to whether citizens can request that RPD write a report. 

I appreciate that there will be a meeting about this where information is shared but to reach a LOT of people it would be more helpful if the City would create a clear written document about this including the various rules, processes and issues related to points, nuisance violations, etc. That sort of effort would go a long way toward answering the questions that some of us continue to ask and would shed some light on a process that seems disorganized, arbitrary and confusing.


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