Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Margy Meath on February 14, 2010 at 10:21am

Thanks for bringing this important topic up DeWain. Because I don't have kids of my own, i am likely less informed re: this issue than others although I do hear a lot of different concerns and perspectives from people who are directly involved in the school debates.
As a tax payer and concerned citizen (re: how kids are educated AND how money is spent) i would be very interested in attending a forum where real information (vs. rhetoric) is shared and a variety of viewpoints are explored. In your post above do you mean to say that the forum should NOT be a simple "pro vs. con" format??

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Permalink Reply by DeWain Feller on February 14, 2010 at 8:24pm

Thanks Margy. Yes, you are right. I did mean to say that this should *not* be a simple "pro vs. con" format (and I have edited the post).

Do you have any thoughts as to what the format of the forum should be? Should the Association also send in written input to City Hall on the topic? I don't believe that there needs to be one consensus viewpoint, and perhaps we could supply a number of perspectives, concerns and recommendations.

Please ask around with your neighbors. I don't think that this needs to be limited to parents of kids currently in the RCSD. We have two kids that we are sending to Nazareth Hall because we were not able to get into an RCSD school that we felt comfortable with. Families that elect to put their kids into private/parochial schools (or families that choose to move) also have a stake in the matter. We need to bring the RCSD up to a state where more families are willing to send their kids there, and the discussion ought to (in part) focused on how we get to that point.

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Permalink Reply by DK Miller on February 14, 2010 at 10:01pm

19th Ward residents have typically been in the forefront of educational change including the school desegregation process back in the 70's and the redesign that changed West High to Wilson.

More than crime, violence, or housing-the main reason that our neighbors leave the City is because of the schools.

Possibly a panel discussion with presentations from a few viewpoints followed by a moderated Q&A session with ideas/suggestions captured on flipcharts could be helpful. As DeWain said - not a simple pro vs. con, but asking people to come up with answers to the question "What is really needed to improve the city schools?"

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Permalink Reply by Mark Sweetland on February 15, 2010 at 12:03am

Yes, Dana, from my experience that is exactly why my neighbors moved out. The schools. And I agree with your suggestion. Taking it one step further, who would you suggest be on such a panel? And how do we get it to happen?

By the way, thanks for all you do.
Mark

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Permalink Reply by Eleanor Coleman on February 15, 2010 at 9:20am

I like your question about what is needed to improve the city schools better than who should lead. I think the deeper question that needs to be asked is, "How do we create learning environments that work for our kids?" From there, the leadership will emerge.

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Permalink Reply by DeWain Feller on February 15, 2010 at 12:59pm

Thanks for the comments folks. I like Eleanor's comments that we should frame the discussion in terms of "How do we create learning environments that work for our kids?" From what I have seen, the solutions could come in either a school board-controlled district or a mayoral-controlled district. The question is not "status quo vs. change" but rather "what change is needed, and how are we going to make that change."

One area of concern that I have about the comments that I have read from the Mayor's office is the claim that we need to "return to neighborhood schools." I know of a number of parents (including ourselves) that are concerned that there is not enough choice in the RCSD. I don't know of anyone who has clamored for "neighborhood schools" other than School 46 (Browncroft) parents that who wanted to limit the number of kids from other neighborhoods attending their school. Is the mayor hearing a broad enough spectrum of parents?

The current RCSD school choice program guarantees that any student in the immediate neighborhood can get a slot in their neighborhood school. In contrast, parents in areas with troubled schools have a very difficult time getting a slot in a school with a good environment. When we applied for the Genesee Community Charter School, there were 20 openings and a waiting list of about 119 applicants. We were about 117 on the waiting list. We really don't have school choice; we have a chance at having a choice.

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Permalink Reply by DK Miller on February 15, 2010 at 1:22pm

DeWain raises a good point. The thought behind neighborhood schools is that many parents are complaining that they do NOT have 100% chance at getting their neighborhood school. This is primarily coming from people in Browncroft and Park ave areas who want to be guaranteed a spot in schools 46 and 23. Further there is a thought that if children are in schools near their homes, parents will be more involved.

Neighborhood schools do not account for people who would like to live in one neighborhood and make sure that their child can attend school in another. There is also a large group of parents that live in the 19th Ward, but send their children to School 39 (farthest away) because they can put children on the bus at 8:00 and head off to work. If they sent their children to a neighborhood school, the children would have to be there at 9:20 which would require some type of before school care.

No one simple solution for any of this.

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Permalink Reply by DeWain Feller on February 15, 2010 at 4:29pm

Are there really any documented cases of someone not being able to send their kid to the neighborhood school? My impression is that the "neighborhood schools" issue is as overblown as the "myth of the NET Nazis." Some very vocal landlords complained that NET (now NSC) was too aggressive in enforcing code violations, and that enforcement was "driving people out of the city". Many of us in the 19th Ward know that the opposite is the case: it is extremely difficult for neighbors to get NET serious about negligent landlords, and dilapidated properties are driving residents out of the city. Of course, the city should not be excessive in enforcement, but the landlord complaints of excessive enforcement seem to be more legend than reality.

By the same token, we don't want to have any parent to be excluded from sending their kids to their neighborhood schools, but we absolutely should not drive away a large number of families (by taking away school choice) in order to satisfy a few parents whose concern may be largely fabricated.

The busing issue is a real issue, but again the solution cannot be to take away school choice. We need more before/after school programs and we need the walking distance to be shortened; however, this is turn highlights the reality that it is not likely that we will be able to make the needed changes to the RCSD *and* lower costs.

The notion that taking away school choice will strengthen neighborhood schools is one of those notions that seems to make sense to the uninitiated, but the reality is that many parents will simply move out of the city or go to private/parochial school. We do need to do our best to elevate all schools in the city, but we will not be able to do that by taking away school choice.

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Permalink Reply by Margy Meath on February 15, 2010 at 10:30pm

So many interesting issues related to the school issue ......
In terms of a forum for discussion of the school issue, i agree that it needs to include a BROAD view of interested parties- many ideas of who should be involved are listed above. To those ideas, I'd add the following viewpoints should be part of the dialogue: STUDENTS and former/retired teachers.

In terms of neighborhood schools, I don't know enough about this concept but let's start by having the Mayor put much needed resources/investment in THIS neighborhood so we can one day be as strong as Park Ave, Browncroft,etc!

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