Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Judi Baker on November 19, 2011 at 6:59pm

If i thought it/I  would/could make a difference, I might attend.  However, my suitcases are packed, out of sight, out of mind!

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Permalink Reply by Margy Meath on November 21, 2011 at 8:46am

I cannot attend John as I have Tues/Weds evening commitments almost every week. I do hope that someone will take time to share some of the discussion that takes place. I wonder if "city hall on the road" keeps minutes of what is discussed at various community meetings?? If they do, perhaps those might be shared with this group after the meeting??

That said, I've not seen minutes from some other local meetings posted here in a couple of months.

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Permalink Reply by John Boutet on November 21, 2011 at 12:06pm

I'm not sure if the city published the notes that were taken at the fall 2008 City Hall On The Road meeting I attended.  I do recall someone was taking notes for Mayor Duffy.  It would be nice if someone from the SWCC or CDC could arrange for that to take place.

I do believe that a lot of what gets discussed here get heard.  I was delighted to see our newest member Isheka at the SW Common Council meeting last Thursday.  She will be taking the minutes for coming SWCC meetings.  Isheka works at the SW NSC office with Dave Hawkes. Dave was also at that meeting.

Getting people to act on what is heard is still a necessary of course.  Getting involved with the 19th Ward Housing Committee,  participating in City Hall On The Road, attending the Safety Committee/Thurston Road Street Watch meetings and taking with Adam and John are ways to keep the pressure on to make sure issues are properly prioritized for attention.  I was also delighted to see Diane Watkins get elected to one of the two VP positions in the 19WCA.  She has been an active member of this forum and I am sure she will help stir the pot and move issues forward.

On posting of minutes, I have at least one set of minutes Marian took for the Housing Committee I need to post.  Minutes for the latest SWCC meeting should be coming soon since both Eleanor and Isheka were taking notes.  Now that the 19WCA convention workload is over with, I hope to connect with Jackie Farrell at the 19WCA office to catch up with posting Delegate Council minutes and other Association info on Location19.

Be sure to encourage other member of your Marlborough Road Neighbors block group to attend the City Hall On The Road event on Wednesday, November 30th.

 

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Permalink Reply by Bill Nichthauser on November 14, 2011 at 10:50am

I don't think that we should label renters as necessarily "bad".  We've had renters walking PAC-TAC, and getting quite involved in the welfare of the neighborhood.  This includes students.  We had students renting a house for years across our little street (Grandview Terrace).  They were wonderful, and I believe we have students renting a restored house at the corner.  It looks nice and the lawn is regularly mowed.  We've never had a problem. That house previously rerfered to  is now owner occupied.

Years ago we had an owner occupied house on the street that was a problem house--loud partying with over 150 people pouring out into the street at all hours of the night.

I just thought I'd put a different perspective on this issue.

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Permalink Reply by DeWain Feller on November 15, 2011 at 9:10am

Bill, I totally agree.  There is nothing intrinsically wrong with renters or rentals.  We have problem properties in the 19th Ward that are rentals, and we have problem owner-occupied homes.  We have some nice owner-occupied homes, and we have some nice rental property.

I strongly feel that we have been off the mark for too long by blaming problems on rentals instead of focusing on actual problems.  If someone is not maintaining their property, it doesn't matter if they are an owner-occupant or if they are a landlord-- we need to get the city to more assertive about code enforcement.  If someone has a loud party (or any other quality of life problem) at their house, it doesn't matter if they own the home or if they rent-- we need to enforce laws.

The bottom line is that we need to focus on addressing problems and boosting property values.

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Permalink Reply by Mary Reese on November 23, 2011 at 8:08am

Don't know if this is the right group to write to but since we're talking about problem houses my roof sprung a leak last night. Can anyone recommend someone who can patch a roof?

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Permalink Reply by Marian Boutet on November 24, 2011 at 2:30pm

Try Peter Evans at 436-7437.  He's a long-time resident and contractor.  He's mostly retired and may not want to do it himself, but he can recommend someone.

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Kathleen Connelly on January 16, 2012 at 6:06pm

All apologies for the length of this post. I really did try to be brief! I’m living at ground zero of the burgeoning student housing problems in our neighborhood. I don’t believe the student rental problems here (Weldon/Custer area) have manifested to the same degree anywhere else in the ward so far, though I think there is good reason to believe they will, at least in certain areas. The problems we have been experiencing are not unique— they tend to arise in any area where there is a large concentration of college students. Other areas in and around the city have similar issues, as well as communities across the country. For a small introduction: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2003-03-02-college-slums-usat_x.... Recognition of problems associated with a high concentration of college students doesn’t mean that the presence of college students is all bad or that all students exhibit negative behaviors. However when there are large numbers of adolescents concentrated in a small area, almost all of them living on their own for the first time and among friends and peers, there are behaviors that can be predicted that will negatively impact the surrounding area.

 

Generally speaking, this population is highly social, nocturnal, peer-oriented, and prone to risk-taking behavior and excessive consumption of alcohol. A study by the Harvard School of Public Health found that people living near college campuses were more likely than the population at large to report a lowered quality of life. They were 135% more likely to suffer from disturbances due to students’ binge drinking (it is estimated that close to 50% of college students binge drink) and more than twice as likely to be plagued by vandalism, assault and other disturbances. It is difficult to convey to people who haven’t directly experienced the impact of living with this population how persistently disruptive and damaging the effects can be, both personally and to the larger neighborhood. For a very small (and mild) taste of what we’ve experienced over the last 3 years, those who are interested might listen to a few minutes of an episode of This American Life: http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radioarchives/episode/451/back-to-p.... Minutes 33:00 to 47:30 (approximately) are very typical Thursday-Saturday behavior (not that it’s limited to those nights).

 

While college students have the potential to be a positive presence in the area, collectively this is not how we are experiencing them. The problems associated with students and student housing are numerous. We have landlord issues, zoning issues, code compliance issues (more occupants than legally allowed; unauthorized 3^rd floor occupancy; no certificate of occupancy; paved back yards; retrofitting and other modifications without permit), housing targeted exclusively to students for rental, homeowners being approached by landlords about selling their homes etc. Then there are continual noise problems, parking issues of every sort, property maintenance issues, a proliferation of trash, binge drinking, public urination (on the rental and surrounding properties) and impaired driving, often from multiple properties on a given night. And then there are the parties, both large and small. The students call the small parties “gatherings” or some variation. They make a distinction, which is important to them, between these “gatherings” with friends and roommates, and “parties”, which to them seem to be events that are out of hand in every way and large enough to involve many people they don’t know. As student housing in the area has increased, there has been a corresponding increase in nocturnal (10pm-3am) migrations as students walk between parties, friends’ houses, home after the bars close, and to and from campus. Even in the absence of a party or “gathering” in the immediate area, the regular passage of drunken groups of students, large and small, throughout the night results in being awakened multiple times, particularly Thursday through Saturday. I think Margy Meath’s description of the week-long funeral/party in her area gives an idea of what a student-heavy neighborhood contends with on a regular basis.

 

I understand that there are some individual cases where there have been improvements made with the conversion to college rentals. I’m familiar with the house on Genesee St. that Bill N. mentioned that has been fixed up and rented to college students and it is easy to see that as an improvement. I have also heard there is a landlord on Millbank who has fixed up a couple of houses he rents to college students and one he lives in himself. It’s easy to see in these cases how this can be a positive addition to the neighborhood. But currently, these are the exceptions.

 

It’s important to keep in mind that the problems that college students are bringing, at least to this area, are not supplanting existing problems, they are adding to them and creating new ones. In the past 3 years, 5 owner-occupied homes (one containing two units) within a block of my house have been converted to college rentals. All were previously well-maintained, relatively quiet, and had a reasonable number of occupants and associated vehicles. None, except for one unit of the duplex where the owner occupied half, were rentals. Venturing beyond this one-block radius, there are many more homes that were recently owner-occupied (many by long-term residents) that are now college rentals. While there are already a number of rental properties in the area (many with long-term renters and a positive presence), these are not the properties that are thus far being sold to college landlords or changing their renters to college students. It is largely a changeover from single-family, owner-occupied homes to college rentals. This has reduced the number of long-term residents and resulted in an enormous increase in population density, made up of a group that is, by definition, both adolescent and transitory. Undergraduates rarely stay in a house more than a year and turnover can occur more often than once a year with summer sublets and other variations. Undergraduate renters always fill houses to the maximum occupancy limits and very frequently exceed them. And, as many of us have learned, code compliance is largely voluntary. I have been told by a city inspector that occupancy limits are virtually impossible to enforce. In addition to the “official” residents, generally there will be one or two live-in romantic interests per year, and a host of “stay-overs.” On top of that, each individual resident will frequently have additional friends over. The vast majority of the students have their own cars. The number of people, vehicles, and the propensity for night-time socializing makes daily life challenging, just in terms of the noise of coming and going. Parking regulations are continuously ignored which has resulted, most seriously, in a fire truck being unable to pass (the high number of parking violations near Genesee St. and Genesee Park Boulevard, noted by Margy Meath in another post, are related to the escalation in student housing in the area). Buses and garbage trucks lay on their horns early in the morning until they get a response, or parking enforcement goes door to door ringing bells until they find the owner. And you can imagine what it’s like when the plows come through.

 

There is clearly some overlap between the issues we are experiencing with this large concentration of college student rentals and those found throughout the 19^th Ward— like the problems of predatory landlords and noise. Good enforcement of the existing housing code and quality of life ordinances will help us all. I think there are, however, particular challenges presented by large numbers of college student renters in close proximity that are somewhat distinct— related to their life stage, transitory nature, relative affluence, priorities, responsiveness to peers and a culture surrounding large-scale alcohol consumption. The colleges certainly bear some responsibility for monitoring and managing student behavior off-campus. When students live on campus, supervision is considered necessary and is provided. But when these same students live off campus the responsibility (and financial burden) for student behavior is shifted to the larger community.

 

Targeted strategies and a comprehensive set of solutions could make a tremendous difference in whether college student residents contribute to this neighborhood or undermine its quality of life. Many other communities around the country have had to take steps to deal with the problems associated with college student rentals. Many colleges and universities are themselves proactive in working both toward student safety and to ensure responsible behavior off-campus as well as on. Residents of the 19^th Ward share many concerns and issues related to code enforcement and quality of life. I think we will be more effective in sustaining and enhancing our community if we understand and address the particular realities of specific issues, including the many challenges associated with the influx of college students. Our experience and the experience of others around the country make it clear that there are some predictable behaviors and challenges associated with this highly transitory population of adolescents. Recognizing and anticipating these challenges before they hit other areas of the ward could help define the presence of college students here in a way that capitalizes on their positive potential and counters or disallows the negative. And if you made it to the end of this post, you should get a prize! I’ll try to come up with something . . . 

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Permalink Reply by Margy Meath on January 17, 2012 at 2:25pm

Kathleen-

i read this entire post (twice) but no prize needed! I certainly empathize with what you're experiencing - it sounds awful. I appreciate your point about large numbers of 'students' and the impact they can have on a neighborhood/street.

The way I view this problem is that the CITY is ultimately responsible for the code/zoning/public safety issues that many of us are attempting to deal with. The code exists for a reason and lax enforcement has significantly contributed to the problem you describe. Landlords would not be buying up houses here if they knew that they could NOT get away with some of what you describe..... by the way, I wonder if those "cash for homes" signs littering our neighborhood are 'legal'?? 

Likewise, if the police are called for noise/nuisance type violations and they do nothing it sends a messaage that the rules don't really apply - this contributes to the detioration of the entire neighborhood! 

I am tired of the 'we can't do anything about that' responses we get from the city re: various issues and think that our only hope is to keep up the pressure re: the things you describe above. (noise, zoning, code, etc). The 19th Ward Association Housing committee appears to be working hard on some of these issues. Likewise, I know that various other groups are addressing issues. Hopefully, the City of Rochester and its employees understand their significant responsibility in responding to our concerns!

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Permalink Reply by Judi Baker on January 24, 2012 at 12:16pm

Ditto on the Eastside of Genesee St. too!!

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Permalink Reply by Margy Meath on January 24, 2012 at 12:37pm

I've been thinking more about this issue - housing/students/code enforcement/crime, etc. It occurs to me that the neighbohoods immediately adjacent to UR and Strong do not appear as deteriorated as some of the streets/homes here in the SW. I also don't think they have nearly the amount of crime we have.  I know that many of those homes are also rented to students and some owned by professors/staff of UR..... so, it leaves me wondering why we seem to have an abundance of homes that are deteriorating and others where noise, illegal parking is tolerated when the same problems don't appear to exist on the 'other side' of the river??  A drive down any residential street immediately adjacent to UR reveals mostly well kept homes with no obvious issues yet in the SW one cannot drive a block without seeing code issues, illegal parking, etc.

Questions I am thinking about.....

Are "we" more tolerant?

Are things enforced differently here?

Is there an expection that certain things are OK in the SW but not in the SE?

Which area has the most tax paying citizens?

What is the satisfaction of citizens in terms of  'bang for our buck'? (no pun intended)

what is the crime rate of the SW compared to the SE?

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Judi Baker on January 24, 2012 at 4:28pm

It will be interesting to hear reply's to your questions from 'the powers to be' who monitor this page, eh?  Yeah, the SE does appear to be much more appealing. It is very apparent they are NOT as tolerant to these types of behaviors.  Oh, I'm sure problems exist, but it seems they have a handle on it.  Key word here is 'seems'.  Wonder who gives them a helping hand at the problem solving tables?? I love driving over there with my camera.  Oh, and I don't see piles of empty liquor bottles, balloons, candles and stuffed animals on every corner either. 

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